R E S T R I C T E D
VISIT TO IMPERIAL TOBACCO COMPANY CANADA
26tb JUNE 1980
Present: Messrs R M Gibb
R S Wade
S Candlish
P C Dunn
T A Smith
R. Begin (in part)
The meet inci started with Bob Gibb raising a number of criticisms
about the GR 4 DC programme, and also about the decision to have
some R & D undertaken in Brazil for Group benefit. This reflected
what I regard (and stated) to be an unsatisfactory and unnecessary
situation: Having agreed at the Research Conference last
October the shape of the 1980 R & D programme, and forwarded
the programme through Mi E Ricard, we received no feedback until
my present visit - though we have been discussing a new form
of research funding agreement.
Gibb's approach, expressed to Bob Begin during our separate
discussion on the research funding agreement, was that be
vigerously expresses his views and then leaves it to us to do
what we think fit - because at the end of the day we have the
responsibility of deciding what is best in the interests of
the B A T Group. I appreciate the point, but believe that a
mid-way position would be far better all round.
I made it absolutely clear that both I and Alan Heard would
welcome a much higher level of dialogue with I T L (and with
other associates) because without this, we can never be sure
that we have the optimum programme. If distance and money
restricts the number of visits, there is always the telephone.
telex and letter. I suggested to Gibb, however, that quite
apart from the meeting at the Research Conference, be or his
senior staff should andeavour - as do Germany - to have at least
one visit to Southampton during the year to ensure that their
own particular interests or needs are taken into account as far
as possible C:)
__4
The mood of the meeting changed very much for the better after
the half-hour break during which Mr Begin joined Gibb and me to
negotiate the minor changes we bad proposed to I T L's re-draft
of the new research funding agreement. All points were
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discussed and settled amicably. Begin thought that the
logic of the new form of agreement, accompanied by supporting
financial statements from Hillbank, would satisfy the tax
authorities and would obviate the necessity for detailed
annual re-examinations.
Most of the meeting was spent going through the 16 key
technical areas and the following main points arose:
1. BIOLOGICAL
The wording of the Strategic Objective (agreed by the Research
Conference in October 1979) is inadequate. it should say why
the work is undertaken eq. as a defence or as an aid to the
development of "safe" products.
Gibb's initial view was that little has come out of Biological
research over the years and why, therefore, do we continue with
it? I said that in my opinion much of the work under-taken in
th last year or so has been extremely important, eg. the B 14
study of nicotine, and the inhalation study of selective filters
which suggested that removing irritants could lead to a greater
depth of inhalation of smoke. Moreover, the current work on
expanded tobacco, and the proposed look again at some sheet
products, is also strategically important. Gibb's response
was 'in that case, why don't we make such points clear in the
programme?'.
It was suggested that we should consider the biological activity
of the type of smoke that is generated under actual human
conditions - rather than that generated by a machine.
2. 'FILTERS
GR & DC should concentrate on fundamental research and should
not be concerned with developing commercial products. Thus,
the H E E filter programme should'be concerned with understanding
the fundamentals of smoke capture for different types of
tobacco, paper, plug wrap, etc, and not with trying to make an
H E E machine, or to produce H E E filters for trial.
The point was made that a successful filter for, say, Swiss
tobacco, would not necessarily work with Canadian tobacco.
Likewise, an H E E filter suitable for one maker may not be
suitable for another maker. It should be left to Associates
to make the appropriate H E E machine - GR & DC having first
demonstrated the principle.
Clearly, this is a point for discussion at the Research
Conference.
3. TIMNGS AND PAPER
4. C19ARM-1i DkSIGN
S. CQ=STLW
These two programme areas were regarded as extremely important.
(Apparently, Mr J L Mercier and other I T L Directors high-
lighted these programmes at a meeting to discuss the R & D
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Programme; they said that they were what they expect from
GR & DC. Unfortunately. we had no feed-back from that meeting.)
George Few's recent visit to Canada to work on O/KP was
apparently extremely successful.
6. SIDE STREAM
There was full support for this work - the objectives of which
were recognised as likely to be extremely difficult to achieve.
7. HUMAN SMOKING AND SMOKE RETENTION
S. PSYCHOLOGY AND SENSORY TESTING
There was concern that these work areas might not be running
sufficiently closely together. I explained that they were,
in fact, close - and noted that the taste and flavour panel
now reports to Dr Oldman.
In the vexed area of what makes a smoker like or accept a low
delivery product, it was felt that we need to be able to
measure and state in quantitative terms what is happening in
the first three puffs. The aim must be to have a reliable
model that helps the cigarette designer predict acceptable
levels of tar and nicotine on the one hand, and acceptable
mechanics of smoking on the other.
I T L have recently examined their own low delivery products
to see whether there are any obvious common features that have
led to success in the market place. We shall get a copy of
the assessment.
9. SMOKE TASTE-AND rLAVOUR
This is another area of considerable importance.
it was suggested that we should re-examine the earlier work
of the Minnesota Mining encapsulated flavours/enhancers for
flue-cured products - in an attempt to find a way to eliminate
the excessive pack aroma that can arise from the use of flavour
additives.
10. LEAF AND MICROBIOLOGY
Gibb is clearly averse to the Leaf Steering Committee having
taken responsibility for R'& D programme. Moreover* be
feels that work undertaken in Brazil will not have a practical
outcome in Group terra because of the different tobaccos, soil
conditions, weather, etc. it was explained that I T L bad
found it necessary to close down their own tobacco farm because
it proved impossible to 'compete, with the major leaf
research stations in the U S and Canada.
There was particular criticism that the major part of the 8
new programmes have already been covered by the Research
Stations (including Delhi) and it is suggested that it is
only necessary to consult the literature to find most of
what needs to be known on close growing, fertilisers,
comparison of varieties, etc.
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4
12. TOBACCO PROCESSING
A particular point was that the general statements made an
page 71 were not adequately supported by the actions cited
on pages 73-75 of the R. & D. Frogra mme
There was much stronger feeling, however, about the programme
planned to be undertaken in Brazil. Gibb was especially
concerned that the C A C Countries had not been consulted an
the program*, and also there is a general concern that there
is too much emphasis on Burley at the expense of flue-cured
tobacco - which I argued was not true.
It was said that I T L has stated in writing over many years
what GR & DC should be doing, but by and large we had ignored
everything. I said that we have been over this ground at
the two recent R 4 D Research Conferences, and that. in my
view, while argument and controversy was paramunt, notbing
in the way of clear programm suggestions bad emerged. In view
of Brazil's wish to undertake some work on behalf of the Group,
it bad been decided to formulate a progra , 1 and then to submit
it to otbers for comment. I explained that the Brazil work
was only part of the total R & D programme on processing which
was discussed and approved at the last Research Conference.
Gibb agreed that be would draw up a list of I T L I s current
needs and forward them for consideration well in advance of
the September conference.
12. MET TXPANSION
I sensed that there is increased interest at I T L in G 13.
A recent visit from Reynolds suggested that there in no
environmental problem with the G 13 process - perhaps quite
the opposite ie. flurocarbons may even help to combat the build
up Of C02 in the upper atmosphere, which could lead to us all
freezing to death.
'3. SECOWDARY AUTOMATION
Gibb said that be board from Cliff Warren that the recent meeting
at Marlow was a great success, and that I T L feel that the
priorities are correct. The competent presentations, at the
meeting was mentioned.
14. VENTILATED CIGARETTE TECHNOLOGY
There are so many products and processes available for achieving
a given level of ventilation and/or delivery, that it would
be belpful for GR h DC to prepare a Status Report which gi
clear rec- ondations to associates in the light of the best
evidence available.
It was pointed out that manufacturing operations In Canada are
running into severe problems due to the sensitivity of production
to both materials and ventilation machinery. This whole area
could well be one of the major areas of the future.
15. INSTAUKENTATION AND CONTROL
in general. this whole programme is regarded as critical for
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the Group. I T L's ma in needs are covered.
16. ANALYTICAL DEVELOPMENT
it was wondered whether the latest CM & DC maw spectrometer
can be used to identify added flavours in competitive brands,
eq Merit. We are to be asked to examine a range of Canadian
samples of flue-cured products.
There is a view in I T L that both Carlton and Now may be using
some special tricks that are unknown to B A T. Particularly,
paper additives to compensate for the faster burning arising
from the use of expanded tobacco. They would like us to carry
out an investigation - especially of Carlton.
17. TAMAG PROCESSES
I explained the various trials we have in band in the areas
of:
(a) stem and lamina expansion
(b) nicotine-and harshness reduction
(c) ready flake sheet
and also the situation regarding CO and NO reduction. There
was good support for our decision to become involved with Tamag.
SUMMARY
After a somewhat tricky start, we bad a useful meeting. we
must, however, develop a more effective dialogue between I T L
and Group R & D - with liey staff having a greater knowledge of
and a greater involvement in the GR 4 DC programme. With the
exception of Germany, this applies to all C A C Countries; we
sball discuss the issue at the September Research Conference.
L C F BLACKMAN
is July 1980
A L HEARD M
R J PRITCHARD ESO
BATCo document for Province of British Columbia 12 April 1999