CLIENT: IMPERIAL TOBACCO JOB NO: 203-859 GROUP: 3 Male Quitters DATE: May 28/85, 6:00 PH MOOEI(ATOR: R,W, Crosby R; My name is Ted, I sell and install aluminum and I'm separated, 26, R: My name is Oary, Single, of course, I work for the Brewers, 23, R: I1~ Eraham, I'm single, I work for a company celled Bright Light Signs, I'm a corunission salesman, M: What sort of signs? R: Neon, R: My name Is Graham B, I'm a carpenter at this time, Single, i like to spend my time outdoors, R: My name Is Krendal, I'm 20, single and I work in retail, M: What do you do in retaill R: I sell sunglasses.for Imperial Optical, R: My name's Jim, I'm 20, I'm currently unemployed looking for a su~ner job, I'm a student, M: Whereabouts? R: At Queensl R; Phil, Single, 21, work as a security guard, Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 __ R: K8~in, I'm 261 I am a host at the Ddnwood Club. M: I: want to talk to you about sntoking, You guys are all former smokers? R: Is this a testl M: Basically I'm interested in your general attitudes and ideas. I:ld like to get from you a little bit of your smoking history, When you started, what brands. how long yell smoked and what brand you quit with, Why don't we start with you Kevin? R: Well, nigh school, grade 13, M: go you remember what brand you started with? R: 'Thatls a tough one. r think they were kerican, Camel. I never lived In the states. It was just,,l,. M: Which brand did you move from? R; Oh,I'msorry, Vantage. I smoked Vantage all the way through university and when I came to Toronto, I think the only reason why I smoked Camels is because somehow everybody did at one time. M: When you quite, what brand were you smoking? R; Vantage. H: And how long did you smoke?, R: Well, f puit last sumner, so I guess 13·15, so it's 12 years, Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 M; How abou; you Graham B1 R: r started smoking probably when I was 10 of 11 somewhere, Out in the country I didn't have much to do, r smoked my mother's brand, Belvedere, of course, because her's were always lying around, But after a couple of months, I bought OuMaurier and I guess t slicked DuMaurier for 7 years and I smoked Export A Extra Light for ever since they came out, I guess, And I quit in February of this year, 2lsi birthday, R: When I started it was in high school too. I was probably about 16, I smoked player's Filter or something like that, We switched brands a lot, When I finished, it war player's light. That was like last June, when I finished sehool, For the sumner break, I:went to Florida, R: I started smoking when I was about 9, I was smoking just for the kicks, I'd see everybody older than me doing it so I figured I'11 try it, f started rmcking Export A, i stayed with it until Export Extra lights came out and I started smoking then, And then I puit about tuo months ago, R; I started just like my e6·partner here on the Export A and the reason for that is that we used to break Into Hr, so and so's garage and they just thought it was a representative from McOanaldls Tobaccos So we used to go up and down the street and I used to take my older brother · Bob and I didn't give them the cigarettes, They had sort of a gang that took us in, so they had those little S packs of Etport A's, I guess I was about 14, 1 cluit after Halloween last year, P M: What were you smoking when you quit? [u Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 R: Matinee, I went from the tough guy to the..,,, R: I started smoking Cigarettes around age 16, Export A. Went to Export medium, and tried DuHaurier, DuMaurier Light, Players Filter and puit with Players Light, About 6 weeks ago, I hate extra light cigarettes, I don't know, There's something wrong with them, You gotta suck so hard and then it burns too hot, They don't taste good, R: I guess I started in about grade 11, I just sort of "started smoking sort of socially on weekends, but then at about grade 12,it sort of because more of weekly type thing. r started smoking Players Light and from that, I tried a couple different brands, I tried Export A for a while and I guess I gave up without a year and a half ago, M: What were you smoking then? R; Players Light, R: I started when I guess I was In grade 5 when I was l0yearsold, Rothmans, I remember 'opening the package, the very first one and then It ~as only a tease i guess, ether people'sl I guess, in ernest, f really started smoking when t got my first full time job, When I turned 19, I've quft 3 times a ltogether, I managed to quit, this last time, since November, by every time I got the urge to have a cigarette, I'd just pretend that I just put one out and 1 didn't need it, R; binge, P R; Is that what you did? Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 R: Yeah, R: It works. Well, for me, M: What were you smoking when you guitl R: Benscn and Hedges, More cancer for your money, M: You've all quit successful so far. R: So far. M: Dc you see there's a chance that you might not successfully quit? it's only 52,75 a pack. R: I premised myself that when it was J2400 I'd quit, but I didn't, R: unless Michael Uilsonls going to finance,,,, M: What was it that encouraged you to quitl R: I was always feeling bombed out. It was hard to wake up and it wasn't just the booze. A: Prices going up. R: I think because i had to clear out my throat in the morning, after drinking straight Crown Royal or something, When you still gotta clear out your throat in the morning, something's wrong, R: Bad breath, Stinky clothing, R: the worst was waking up in the middle of the night feeling O like you're about to cough up pieces of your lung, 13 Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 You're coughing that hard, R: Plus you're a slave to something, like it controlled you, You didn't control it. R: I don't mind being a slave, depending on the circumstances, R: It was just, yeah, for a long time, I knew all about the health thing, But it's really when you're not getting a goad night's sleep, because it's waking you up. Wake up, it's time for another cigarette, A: Yeah, it's like I found, when I'd step on the ice and go in for a shift playing hockey and rid be coming off 10 seconds later coughing my lungs out, R: Yeah. R; I figured it was about time to quit, R: Yeah. R: Especially when you're coaching little kids, you've got to sit there and be training then about the game, and:.you light a cigarette up, It doesn't look te good, R: Especially your fingers too, You've got orange fingers. From nicotine, M: What's most important to you in quitting? Is it the physical things ard how you feel the next morning, or is it something else, like Graham was saying, being under control? R: It's actually a category of all the factors, It's a waste a of aKlney, It's bad for your health and Itls just senseless. Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 M: bias this decision to quit one that you made yourselves. or did somebody else influence you? R: Well, for years. I have been pressured by a number of different people. I've been given pamphlets from the Canadian Cancer Society and all that and it was only after people backed off that i actually decided to do It myself, Because, that kind of stuff just made me stick to my guns and smoke more. i wasn't going to have anybody tell me. I make a decision, I control my life and therefore I decided when I'm going to smoke and when I'm not. 50 I made the decision. Maybe sclfR reverse psychology was being pulled by my friends, I don't know. R: Yeah but in the last analysis, youlre goingto be the one who decides whether or not you do anyhow. R: Yeah, R: I mein, whether you're convinced, Somebody can nag you all they want, in the end, you're going to be the one that's going to wind up doing it or not doing it, R: Exactly. R: Nobody's going to make you do something you don't want to do unless you're Jirmny Jones or something, M: What I'm really trying to get a feeling for is this sort of a decision that you thought about yourself over a log period of time and said, hey it's time, of is there somebody who's been begging you? Is it an internal or an external influencel Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 R: It probably begins externally. It winds up being an internaithing, R; I don't think so because you can decide to do what you want because · I mean it's hard to find young pedple ndwadays that don't sake loint~,right? You have to decide yourself whether or not you're the type of person that smokes cigarettes. Or what have you, And, for me, I decided that, when suMner time comes along, I like to run around all the time, and carrying an extra pack of cigarettes, there's extra weight, a lighter, well you always have a lighter because you always need something, Just running around ail the time, I don't have time for it, R: That's kind of like what happened with me. I went to Florida and we had a bet with my friend, and whoever would quit smoking didn't have to drive or take their car to Florida, Sd, it was like, I quit, the week before and then he smoked a little heavier, so he ended up having to drive. It was kind of like hell trying to go down there in the ear with him smoking, at first, Then, after I got over it, it was like · when we were In Florida.,,, R: When you smoked and other people smoked, did it bother you then? R: No, R: It does me, R; Me too. R: like, when I first went to the hotel, r was in tears, And that wasn't because of a goad time. Later an, of O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 _· course it was but, the smoke, when you don't mKlke, it's like your best (inaudible) when you have the cigarette going. It's just like Casablanca with all the smoke blowing around. R: When you have a cigarette though, that smoke comes around you because the heat makes it all rise around, R: It bums your eyes, R; On thing I noticed if I was sitting there with a girl and she'd light a cigarette up, it was right in my face, it never failed. R: My roonrnate quit smoking so he was telling me, why don't you quit, and my other roommate never smoked and started smoking, It's been a weird year, M: But they had an influence on your decision? R: Yeah, because It was easy. I was starting to puit about 6 months ago and then my other roommate started up again, so I got back into it. I could've went both ways, . R: My brother used to smoke and then he quit so I didn't want to be shown up by him so i thought I'll show him who's boss and I guit too, kd now he's smoking again too, R: The thing that was Interesting was myself because I only smoked wheo I was drinking but Jati~nes I'dfanle 6 days a week, so I was a constant snaker. I stopped e though I X just had to have them Iha r drank, I had no O us, for them after f didn't d~inS, O R: Yeah, that's hard. Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·10· R: I drink more now, R: Me tool R: Because you've got your drinks to your lips all the more often because you want something to do, That's why I quit smoking in the first place, after all these years, because I lean, I don't know what to stick in my mouth, I lean, you can smoke joints and you can smoke whatever you want, but after a while, right, you gotta do something with your hands, R: Oo you find ywt hangover is less severe? R: I don't get a hangover, R; I do, R: I slap in, R: I did too, And then I bought Juicy Fruit and Wrigleys, R: i would smoke cigars sometimes and yould wake and feel as If you've been in a fire, R: Exactly, R: Oxygen to the brain or something, R; it's the same with the Ilouor too, It's the pot that bugs you, R: That's right, H: I seen to be hearing that it's a combination of your own decision to puit,'ls well as some encouragement from 0, other people as well, Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·II· How many times have you tried to puit before this time? Have you tried before? R: Yeah, R: Yeah, M: How many times have you triedl R: 4 or ,F, R: Yeah, R: Half a dozen maybe, R: Probably as long as I've been smoking, R: 3 times, R: I've never tried before, M: Okay, for those who have tried and have not made it, why didn't you make it? R: The first time i went out drinking, I had to have a smoke, I usually associated smoking with drinking, M: How long would you've tried to quft for? R: well, it would be the beginning of the week and by the time the weekend cane along, about 4 days, R: Same with me, By the time the weekend came around, I said, next weekend f'll start, Right after this weekend, Monday to Friday was okay, a Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 -12- A: Especially New Years parties, they kill you. R; I found, like the first time I cult I last 9 months, the second time 7, the third time 6 months, So I'm now about equal · I'm never making again, You make up your mind and that. But I find that, every time I started up again was because someone had offered me a cigarette and i forgot why the hell I: puit in the first place, Why not? I can just pult when i want, A: That's a good answer too. R: And binge, before you know it, give me another rmcke~ on yeah, sure, And then, a week later, you've got a pack and you start lighting up again, That's how i started again, every time. M: Was this a social situation? R: Generally yeah. Bar, party or swnething. R: Yeah, that's what I find hard. I mean, I cult last August, but since then, I haven't fallen off the wagon yet, but, there are tlesl And it's usually a social situation, although, where I work, there's a lot of people who do smoke and their cigarettes are always around and the smell is in the air and so 1 go for another coffee. It is hard and I think if I do end up getting back into it, it will be from the social thing. M: What about anyone else who has tried and not made it in the past? Why didn't you make ftl R: dust the drinking afterwards, I gotta buy about 6 at O 7 beer and then you have to have a cigarette, this guy ,q pulte for 2 years and then he started. I couldn't believe It. Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·13· I said, you need a shot in the head, You were iiniPed, you know. He just did the same thing and now he's back to it, R: It's the drinking, R: Yeah, it's the drinking, A: Owe your head gets light,,,,,. R; ~d they all smoke too, you know, M: So i think maybe the majority of people in this room, from when you started smoking, through to when you quit this last time, did you go through a graduation of lighter and lighter cigarettes? R; Yeah, M: You said you switched around quite a lot, R: i find that when I went to a lighter cigarette I smoked mo re~ R: Me too, Twice as many actually, A; I was smoking maybe a pack a day at times, I went on to a lighter pack, I was smoking a pack and a half, So the price just went straight up, R: I was never loyal to one brand, I would snitch here and there. M: Was the move to a lighter brand stgnfflcantl Why did y6u move to a lighter brand? Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·14. R: Because I find Ild be cutting myself down to nothing one day, That was my intention to quit, To limit my tar intake, so every now and then, I would go and try another pack, but I always went back to DuMaurier because it was just such a great cigarette, R: I always smoked the same amount, you know, If I'm going to 40 wt and watch a hockey game or drink, I'm gding to smoke a package. So, Export A, if I smoked a pack of those, I'd really · my mouth would just feel coated, R: How much would you normally smoke a day? R; I wouldn't sake · like I would just do it during drinking or whatever, So, whenever I smoked, I smoked a pack. Now, if I smoked a pack of Players Light, watching a hockey game, then I wouldn't feel Sd bad, R: They're deadly, those Players Lights, R: Players Lightl R: Yeah, R: Yeat, theylre strong enough, H: The move from a heavier to a lighter cigarette,was this a conscious attempt to cut down or maybe to head towards puittfngl R; Yeah, R: You just figure there's less tar and nicotine and theylre O going to be a little easier on you wnen you read tne markings, _q 8, of 10 or 12, The Export A are right up there, 17 and 12, Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 -15· Sd, you figure its half the ratio or something, you know, R: I never did because I found from past experience, that it was a psychological thing. You had to quit cold turkey, like I found, every time yould try and smoke less, it never worked, You had to quit deadl Or it would never be successful, So it didn't matter to ale what you smoked, Like a lesser strength brands, or heavier brands. R: That's what I figured war probably the ease with me, I stuck with vantage always and I knew there was lighter ones, but I also knew my daily nicotine~intalt~, what I required, i knew I would probably just end uip smoking a lot more of something lighter. R: Ilm sure the cigarette companies know that, R: Those Cbntessa slims, they were pretty light, eh? R: Yeah, I figured that, as far as a method of me trying to quit, it just really wouldn't work. Ild just end up spending more money, iherewas really no incentive for me to switch brands, H: Uhen you were in the process of quitting this time, did you consider the other products that you use instead of cigarettes? RI Forget that chewing gum stuff. Chewable nicotines M: Otd you consider that? R: No. Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 R: Cadburj's made a mint with their Mars bars. R: Oh yeah, R: Ju dubes, Cashews, R: PretzP.ls. R: We were using a lot of golf tees, They're all chewed up at the end, M: So you want to have something in your mouth? R: It's something to do, R: Just like the alcohol, like Grahan us saying. The beer, like the drink and the cigarette go together, Scmething to do with your hands. R: 1 guess it was coffee for me. Somehcw or other my caffeine intake went through the roof, But f was fortunate that, when I decided to do this, I was at iac Pilant in puebee for 6 weeks, I was totally isolated, There was no phone, no general store, I jnt brough in supplies for S'weeks, So there was like nothing that - carrots in the garden that I found, That was basically it. This was definitely cold turkey, mere was nothing to substitute, a: That's when you guys smoked dry leaves, 'You were desperate, R: Hy nother, when she was quitting, she used to have those cigarettes ·she bought about 50 or 60 packs of those Brave, Do you remember tnosel They were made out ef the lettuce leaves, They were supposed to O be · you could wke them because they weren't harmful, Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 They didn't have any chemicals in them, whatever the acid they use to preserve them, R: Not like pop and that. R: Now that I remsber when I was quitting, there was another cigarette · non tobacco cigarette. I'm not sure if it was lettuce leaves. R: That's what they were made from · those Bravo · was iet:uee leaves. a: But the whole idea of just smoking something else, other than tobacco, I mean,,,., R: Well, it's a stimulent, eh? R: As far as I can see, never do prescription drugs. and stuff like that and new ideas. other than cigarette tobacco, because cigarette tobacco's been around for thousands of years. As long as they've seen leaves on the ground anyway. All that new stuff doesn't seen logical. Too much chemicals, M: Wnat type of stuff are you thinking of? R: Tobacco is tobacco. It goes along with your chewing R: I've heard of swoething like clove cigarettes. I've been reading things lately that that kind of things are even worse, In some respects, than the regular tobacco. But they don't mention that at all. in their advertising. I don't know. I think anything that yau'n going to fnjest into your lungs has got to O be. in the long term, cruamy. There is no such thing as O a healthy smoke, no matter what it Is. Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·18· If it's lettuce leaves. R: It all depends on now much you smoke, right? R: Yeah. R: It doesn't matter what drugs you do or what you do for a lit~y, as long as you don't do too much of it. R: Yeah. R; We all here smoked about a pack a day or 3/4 or a pack a day, right? But, ii I smoked 5 cigarettes a day, and i could stay smoking 5 cigarettes a day, I would've smoked 5 cigarettes a day and I'd be smoking enough. M: How much should we smoke before we quit? A pack a day? R: Oh yeah. R: 2Y~ packs. R: 3/4 of a pack, R: I sort of kept a limit, a pack a day. I said that I wouldn't let myself go · it could be 2:00 and I would be sort of finished my pack, but I wouldn't let myself go out and get another ope, I'd just say, okay, a pack a day is enougn~ H: Anybody else smoke more than a pack a day? R: Half a pack just myself, but if it was with drinking, it cwld k S or a packs, CII M: So it would go with the situation? Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·19· R; Yeah, R; It depends on the job, 1: was working at the exhibition and I:was up 20 hours a day and i smoked and smoked because I us just up so long. Depends on your job, R: Yeah. keeps from boredom, keepsjiyou going, R: Yeah, like when I'm working on q income tax, like, this year, workingl.on the income tax was hell. Sheer hell because those forms and the cigarette go together, M: let's get back to these other products. Oid you ever consider any other tobacco, any other means Of getting tobacco? R: Yeah, I smoked a pipe for a while. Sherlock Holmes. M; Anybody elsel R: You mean as a way of easing into puittingl M: As an alternative to quitting. R: Colts and that stuff. R; I used to;to it like that - I'd every time I want a cigarette, i would sllloke a feint, But then you smoke so much, yoo:couldn't operate anymore. I mean, It just got to me. You canlt juft3walk around like this and then you say I want a cigarette. You didn't want to smoke anything else, r.mean, you had to have one by now, R: (fnaudfble) by the Geneva Cca~ventic~, (~ter), M: How many smoked a pipe? O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·20· R: I never got into smoking a pipe. R: Yeah, I sntoked a pipe for a while, It was all right, Yeah. These little corn ones. like my friend said, the odd time the little piece of the black stuff would go in it. Most of the time It was just smoking Sala or whatever, Sail pipe tobacco, M: What's the difference between smoking a pipe and a cigarettel R: Well, a cigarette is more convenient actually than the pipe, You always have to keep fidgeting with it, lighting it and stuff like that. It's a little more awkward. R: it makes aroma. R; Yeah, R; · Do you inhale? R; Yeah. A few times, yeah, M: What about that smokeless tobacco? R; chewing tobacco? R: Don't swallow it if you're chewing it. Don't swallow any. You've got to keep spitting it out, R; I tried that, R: You're talking about something that bums, but them's no smoke, aren't you? M: Ho. Iln talking about snuff, O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·21· R: Oh I see, Because there's a product now that burns but it doesn't ~,~. R: You chew it playing baseball or something like that and you get the wad going to keep you busy, eh? They'd be spitting it all over the place, we had one guy on the team you could tell when he just swallowed some, his whole face would go yellow, What I used to do is, you know that 819 league Chew peeks of gum they have? Put in a pack of that and chew that and it shrinks down and then leuthrow In some tobacco and mix it together. It gives it a tobacco taste, but you've just got the gum rea[ly~ R; I've never understood that whole thing at all, Just because the inhaling ,,,, R: I like the taste, You've got the taste at least, R: I just found the whole thing really gross. A: It is gross, Like your face is all stained, right? You're standing there and it just runs dawn your face, R; It's not the kind of thing to do on a date. RI You don't do it on a date, M: Let's go back to the time when you started smoking, host of you were talking about 9,10,11,12 was the area for a lot of people, maybe 16 for a few, Do you remember the circumstances? R; bpetiences? Ef: What was happening at the time? who were you with? h) Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 A; f got really dizzy, I was hacking on him and everythlng~ R: My parents found out, That was trouble, R: I think one day we all went into town and bought a package of cigarettes, I bought Belvedere and everyone else bought OuMaurier or something and the Belvedere tasted like yuch, ehl, We went back to the apple trees in the evergreen forest, we had lots of trees, lots of evergreens, We used to play tag back there, Anyway, I smoked a couple cigarettes, had to 96 home for dinner. Ihey smoked one of mine, and they all got sick, But I just kept on stealing from mom, I'd take a pack out of the carton and there was two people smoking out of one carton, so who knows who was smoking wnatl rid take a pack out, who cares? R: My father, when I tried one of those · he was smoking those Black Cat · they were nice (fnaudible) 22 plus, A; Number 7 ehl R: Yeah. M: how about you Graham? go you remember when you startedl R: It was a small gang and in grade 5 you think you're pretty~tough, So, I guess the other kids who I was chunrming with at the time, they were smoking Exports, It was between Rothmanls and ~ports, so I decided I'd try Rotlunans, There was twin sisters being born at home, so my mother was a little bit on the nervous side, so it a kind of hectic around the house, i was being bWt2d out Of the house more often tnan normal, so i e; was just hanging around with these guys and t started .O smoking, but nothing heavy, f couldn't consider nyself Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·23- a smoker. But thats when I had my firsteigarette. M: War this a pleasant experience? R: No. I thaught it was stupid because I couldn't stand the taste, I thought it was a terrible thing, Like my first beer, I couldn't stand that either. I thought that tasted terrible. M: Some people are shaking their heads around the room here. Is this generally the experience? It wasn't necessarily a totally pleasant experience? R; I had a sort of different thing, I probably started a lot later than most people here. I really started about 16, 17, I would only smoke on the weekends, usually after a couple beers. If I probably just tried to inhale, in the middle of the afternoon, it wouldn't go down very nice. But after about 2 of 3 beers, I didn't mind it, I got quite a nice nigh off it, Whenever I did ii, ii was actually a really good experience. That's more how it became · I was only a weekend smoker for probably about 3 or 4 months; M: It was only with the beers? R: Usually it was with alcohol. It was almost like a thing that went together, It was when I went out and had a couple of beers and someone had cigarettes, Ild b~ao off of them, I used to smoke o,pls tool 8ut then, sort of pretty gradually, well, within a couple of months, I was buying my own peeks and it just started creeping into my daytime. It almost took over my life · iT becane a habit. R: It was' there Monday ~Klming? Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·24- R; Yeah. Exactly. H: How about you Graham? Was it a pleasant experience? 4: Probably, yeah, It was like'everyone just crowded into the smoking area at my high school, and if you didn't moke, you learned quickly, It's like at 1O10O, everyone would just · it was like an outdoor kind of like park thine, R: mat's the reason why I started was I was 4110" in grade 9 in my high school and I was like a year and a half younger than the other kids, so I figured the best way to sort of fit in, for some reason, I'm not sun why at the time, I really wanted to be friends with the guys in the auto Shop, and they smoked Camels, For we reason it was their trademark. I think that had something to do with some advertising campaign at the time, Like the 4uy..... R; We'd walk a mile for hjm, right. R: Yeah, fhe cowboy or something, R: Sari of like social acceptancel R; Oh yeah, Yery definitely, It was sort of like, you want to hang out with the auto shop guys, you smoke Camel. And, I must admit, I really liked it. I got an incredible buzz, H: What about you 8111? Did you enjoy It when you darted? R: Yeah. I moved ffe~n Montreal to london and I hasted it there, I didn't have any friends, so Ild go out and buy O a pad: of smokes and play pinbail, And that's all I would do, Id Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·25· So. it was good for a buzz. M: What age were you then? R; 16. I'd tried it when i was 12, Like all my friends started smoking when they were 12, I never inhaled it, so that's why I guess I never got addicted to it. I didn't know you were supposed to inhale it. But, once I knew yw were supposed to, I was 16, That's when I liked It. RI The first time you coughed your lungs out, right? M: let'sturn back to this last time you puit, I want to know specifically what was going on when you cult this last time. Did you have a hangover, what kind of day was it, did you plan this in advance? R: Brewers Retail on strike. i was out of work, Not enough money to buy cigarettes. Sd i had to write down the things · do I want to buy cigarettes or go and do something else? Sd, maybe there's a bottle of beer there, and I could go out and boy a package of cigarettes. or a bottle of beer. R; So you'd take the beer? R: Imported. R; Drink anything at that time, I didn't really hive to. Like I was saying earlier, I know the guy that owns (inaudible) and he had his basement stacked, H: But really it was a stage where ydu had to sake a declsion.on what you spent your money on? R; Exactly. Oo I want to spend #,75 on a package of cigarettes ~ that's going to last me a dayl I could've done that. lu Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ___ ~ ____ ·2C· Ild rather have the bc!r, I: Iou must've had the opportunity later on, 2; Yeah, if I wanted to go back to then, But I decided f'd quit for · Brewers was out on strike for rougnly 2 or 3 ~cks~.~. R; A month, I; Ye were back at work within 2 weeks, so if I wanted to I eould've, ~, guys It work, my ax girlfriend pot on my ease to puit too, Yes It that that lnade you decide not to go bactl R: Yeah, I decided why should t spend the money on it? I've got better things to spend my money on. R: I think mine was more on the health aspect, ~e elevator in this duRp we're in is always out of ordlr, SO I ran · I'm on the sixth floor and I ran up and whew, so I said, I'11 stay with the jug but the cigarettes have got to go. So I started to go back to the I and Ild Pa 1 bit of Iron and a bit of basketball, trying to get back in shape. I: So, was this something that was brewing up over 1 period of time? P: t was cuttinp dm~ 1D efgPeftcl Im thl llb to 10, I said, w'll 1~ decrease the wnoia Ilr and wipe It right out ad abolish tna habit and I dld~ so, anybody rad to give me mi moneyl How about you? Ylt happened? ClibPDF - v~~fastio.soni ·27- R: Well, what sparked it was I was lust doing sorr~ selling on the phone one day and I find that it's high pressure work and you get a lot of rejection on the phones And it's one cigarette after the at3er. So the pressure got to me and I realized that smoking made it worse, it didn't make it better. Just made me more nervous, the absurdity of it, everything just came to my mind, you know, why am I doing this to myself? And that's It, M: bias this a gradual process? R: I think it was just circumstance at that moment. It was something I think, in the hack of my mind, that I wanted to do and it was just something that happened at that particular moment that made me stop when I did, M: Would that be like 5 rejections in a row? R; Oh, just a really bad day, the boss on my back and I need more leads, ~is kind of stuff, I just looked at the cigarettes and telephone and (inaudible) M: Graham? R: Well, I couldn't afford it actually, I went through probably my 50tn jab, I go through them quick for some reason, but I couldn't afford it after I quit, so I said, what the hell. I can't afford it, I wanted to go out, right, and I was spending 52.50, because I was buying the large peeks, rightl And I: said, hey, 52,50 times 7, that's a ease of beef, so off I went. R; It's not a Ease of beer anymore, R: Yeah I know, So I went out and bought a case of beer and O drank tfiat and didn't slwke. O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·28· Ha about you? I: It was a bet and i knew l'd guit and i did. Yhen we got to Florida that was the last thing from my mind us to smoke, Like you ~~v, to startl Like, once we got there. Of course, there was the ride back, He might've made a share the driving or somethingl You can't take cigarettes when you'n swf~ing. I: Oidnlt you drive down at all, or drive back at alll You can sit there and you can have an open case of bar sitting right beside you. You can have the beer In be~een your legs, as long as the coo does not catch you drinking when he stops you, he won't give you a ticket, R; when I get into the care I like to sleep. Ha about you? I; It was really my brother who first started to quit, I sort of saw I competition, He was doing it for his own health. He was the one that said enough is enough, ~nd then, we probably were smoking the se, He actually was smoking a bit more than me. BaJically, once he'd gone about two rclks and uaJ receiving the kind ol praise fm his friends that I could live with · it was more, hey, he's quit, why haven't pt puftt M: People are saying this to Ilf I: yeah, They were saying, why don't you ppit like your brotherl 50, I thought, you know, ha cap do it · I didn'twant to fal Int are · i was sort or kidding 81en. I always kid qlcll · you know · I don't need thi~ I'n just doing it, you know what I nean? I don't really need it, but hey, It's there, ..,I N ClibPDF - v~~fastio.soni _I _ ·29· R: That's the same thought I gave it too, M: But then, when you actually did quit, that PKwaent yo~ pit, uas Ulere anything special about Ulat mon~entl R: That particular moment? No, I think it was probably just - like you just sort of said, you know, I'm going to do this, this is it, forget it. R: I was waking up tired and that, but the one incident that made me quit was · well, there's one roommate who always plays squash with a and he quit smoking and he was always telling me to quit. So, I'd always beat him, and this one day he smoked me, And he never beats me. Sc I said, I was getting too tired. like, he was making me run all around, so I quit, M: Bid it help? R; Yeah, I beat him now, M: What about you Kevin? R; Well, I mean I've been planning on quitting for years. I knew that I was killing myself, And there would be the odd time that I would like wake up in the morning and know that what f was feeling was that Ild old'd on cigarettes last night. Like coughing to the point that you're actually physically starting dry heaves, R: It's like a trip into the twilight zone sort of, ·R: Yeah. It's quite scarey, So, anyways, I know how I work, and I knew that I was going to have to just set aside sccae time to do this. And I was able to a take 6 weeks last swmer for a holiday and, the night O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·30· before i left, for like you know, the last cigarette, and taen, the next day, in the morning, I was too busy, my schedule was completely different from any other day, I go: my friends ear and UP went and - oh, also, the night before, we'd been shopping for provisions and there was 1 point where I was - well, I'm going to be cone for 6 Weeks and there's those cartons of cigarettes, ~y biggest problem is that I still · I drink far too much caffeine now. I developed an ulcer because of that, So I trade healthy lungs for a sick stomach. R: Pel:i: ulcerl Oid your doctor analyze that for youl R: Ye~~, It's not bleeding yet. So, that's fine. So I Get up there and here I am surrounded with the freshest air I've breathed in in years, Even if I'd been smoking up there, I still probably would've felt awful, R: But you didn't have any cigarettes with you? R: I didn't have any cigarettes with me, Just this raw, pun air. It was torture on my lungs, They coudnlt handle all this oxygen, R: ~ to Banff during the winter, R; Yeah, Banff or Colorado. R: So, anyways, after the 6 · the first 2 weeks were awful and I got into swimming and running there, I kept the Funning up when I got back home. M; A couple of people have mentioned that sometimes you nad to make a decision what to spend your money on. O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 I ~I_C_L -31- I guess there's another way of putting that little more theoretically and that is that there are several things you can de, Pleasurable, but not necessarily essential to YOUr well being, Smoking is one, Drinking beer is another, Wine and alcohol~ Going to the ~cvies, In that array of things that are nice to do, whies would be the last one yould think of giving up, ii you had to make a choice? R: Drinking, R: Food, R: Drinking and sex, R: Sex is good for you. R: Nd, I always need a drink. After a hard day's work, you can put your feet up, have straight rye, have half and half, have whatever you want. But, it does something to YFU, R; I think I1I1 see this guy in the alcoholic hall of fame, R: What can I say? That's what I do in my spare time, R: Around my house, everyone's talking about quitting cigarettes and cutting down on drugs, but no one mentions beer, R: You gotta have something, R: Everyone needs a buzz, R: Something to kill the stress, that's tight, a Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 _ _ C_ _~ L -32· Like, on a Saturday night, we're in there till 9100, we always make sure that you drop at least one case. You gotta drop it right in the car and 23 bottles are good out of it, so you gotta drink them, So, like you're getting the beer anyway. like that Classic, Labati's Classic, we get it all free, R: A little over priced though. M: So how would smoking fit into this? R: I'd give it up First, R: I think if I had to give up anything, it would be - for purely economic reasons - I think it would be that, just because · when you're smoking 2~ packs a day, you really don't enjoy it,,,,, tend of first side) M: let's turn now to another subject, This is a more general subject. This is in the area of your general attitude towards smoking. Do you have any feelings about Mloklnp and health? R: Well, it doesn't telny bather me that much, If youlre going to go, youlre going to go, It's the name of the game. Take it one day at a time, For myself, I've seen those visuallted shows where they've shown the guys lungs being removed, but I, myself, it just doesn't preFare me for that, My aunt died of lung cancer, Ild say actually in every family there's pretty well · your heritage of your family background · the cancer pretty well gets everybody, B I know at least 4 or 5 families or something that's O got one individual · you know, pretty well, ,everybady'r; family, C: I i I; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·33· M: Is this related to smoking? A: Well. lung cancer, it was with my aunt. Its just the same with the drinking or sonetning~ They say you can get ci~osis of the liver or whatever, R: You can get hit by a car tomorrow. R: That's right. R: You can be hit by a golf ball and never heard from again or something out on the range. A: Youlre an agent of that also. If it takes your personal will to make these things~l~~ R; Yeah. R: ,,.,,the smoke and the nicotine tar levels on your lungs or whatever~ · R: it all comes down to · if you think you're going to catch something, you likely will, If you think that smoking hurts you, because you smoke tao much, you ulll smoke too much and it will hurt you. Actually, I think what you're (inaudible) is the idea of smoking, people smoking around you and smoke in your life, M: That's one issue that i want to touch on. I was just thinking, generally, is there a health issue with smoking? R: Yeah. It's a personal decision. R: You can get lung cancer without smoking. a Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 r .3p. R: Yeah, I: ~ friend of mine's aunt pissed Ival~ Be got c~sil and she never drank, Never smoked, Pun vi~in~ ~nd she still died of ci~d~ Of the liver, R; Uhat an;ne odds? dre the odds greater of you ecnt~ctfng cancer II you do smoke, rather than if you don't? Obviously the adds are greater if you do smoke R: If you go' to a bat and you're going to be Inhaling stcke usually an~ay~ Second hand smoke - you're still inhaling th~ s~ke, i find, wh~n I 90 to a bar, IC Inh41~F It. R: Yeah, R: Everybody who goes to a bar is inhaling smoke. Bec~~sa there's sc many people there smoking. R: Yeah, but you were saying that it didn't matter if you smoked or not, R; You could catch it. I: wnlt about the things you sat? Everything from the food on it's got cancer causing agents~ ~ea is bad for you, bnolodi· glubsate in your chinese food. It's ridfculous, I: If you pup a radtul of 50 mi of anything, youlre going to die, I: That's tight, I read about 1 guy that drank himself to death drinking water in lon~n, I: And then again' with the amount of nuclear testing that ClibPDF - v~~fastio.soni _ ~C~_ ·35- was done back in the 50's and 601s, everyone in the world has a certain dose of cancer causing radiation, R: What do you think happened to John Uayne and all those cowboys? R: It was all traced to the testing they were doing In the Nevada desert in 195i, b slew of the had died from that, It's all closed in, 1I1 these Mexicans they brought over for extras In the movies, R: I never worried about the diseases Ild get, but I did worry about not feeling good. R: I'm worried about the long term health aspect fust because · yeah, ve're all going to go, and probably we're going to go with something like cancer or so~thlog, R; Or old age, R: Yeah. Yelra all going to go, but I'd like to die as painlessly as possible, ~nd, the one thing I do know is that.~.. R: Sheer agony would be great f think. I've never died of it before. R: I've personally known people · one person who had lung cancer, one person who had cancer of the bwl, and these two people, one with cancer of the buel, and one with lung cancer, they went through excruciating pain, hot just your ordinary pa1R, but this is the ~turl where they're trying to get heroin for these people because nothing else works, right, how, I want to - If i, maybe I'm going to get It anyway, because f s PY tvD 11 i ~H r~! for P ~an. Id, whp bal ClibPDF - v~~fastio.soni ~_ ·36· kybe I'II just luck out, Or maybe I'I1 just knock off 10 days of excruciating pain, as opposed to having half a year of excruciating pain, maybe only have 5 Ronli~s , R: Or maybe you'll just die, R; Exrctly, But the thing about these illnesses is 3a; they are long and lingering. Its not like a car accident and it's not like being hit on the head rita a golf ball, You stay around and, not only are you in pain, but you're also a drag on everybody else around you, R: ;don't know about that, I've seen some guys With c~nar and they go through the cnemotnen~y and all :~is stuff and they know they're going, so theylre F3inF to have the best time they can. R; ii depends on what it is, If you're someone with chronic ephhyse,,.,, R: I know a guy that died on the Second floor,.., R: ,,,,in an oxygen tent, I mean, what kind of good time are you going to havel R: That's another issue, They should have mercy killing, They should be gone just like that, R: Y~an, like what can you say? R: The way I saw smoking and health was just that I knew smoking was slowing me down, you could feel it when O you tried to run, F R: Makes you lethargic, O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 _· ·37- But f never really · probably because I really didnft smoke for that long, You know, I never rearly saw it doing permanent damage to myself, Maybe because Ild heard scnewhere that your lungs clear up once you stops It was always in the back of my sind, you know, I knew i was a smoker and I knew I was smoking everjday and i knew it was a part of my life. But, I never really thought of myself as becoming cancer stricken or anything like that, I always thought this was something I'm going to live with, but it's not necessarily like, you know, I can't get rid of it. I can get rid of it 'romcrrer, Just stop smoking and five years later, ILm back t~ square one, I: Well I guess cancer is the main disease we've associated with ,..,. R: High bledd pressure, n: An then others that are associated with smokingl R: Heart a;;acks. R: Yeah, R: Your heart beats so hard when you run a block or something. R: On no, I think if you lead a balanced life, and if you eat proper foods, you drink not too much liquor and not too many cigarettes, and dance with the right woman, youlre going be all right man. R: Yeah, fust comes from living properly. I mean, there was dnmmer, he drank i beer everyday for 8 years and E, then he went in for cirrfiosfsof the liver, right? But O I'll 90 out and drink a 12 on Friday and a 12 on Saturday Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ~ -38· and then whatever's left on Sunday. And it dwsn': do Re any harm. It's just because, for the other a days i didn't do anything, R: I stay off for 3 or a days, just like you. and then I drink a 24, R: Weekend drinkers. R; Yeah, R: Well, I heard that beer's good for you. R: Yeah. R: It's salt and barley and it's corn flakes in a liquid form, M: There are several things we can do that are pleasurable but not necessarily needed by our bodies - smoking, alcohol, eating the wrong types of food, eating too much food, ihat Rind of stuff. How does smoking fit into all of that, in terms of the risk involved, sly, versus eating too much? R; Well, it's worse. R: I'd sooner smoke than eat too much. R; Yeah, but you can be an obese slob. R: Yeah. R: I'm trying to tone up guys, just give me a chance. R: You can end up locking like this guy . O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·39· You know, an 1.9, of minus 80, but you found him in a vineyard field and and,... M: Which is mote potentially dangerous to your health? R: Obesity, in short tew, Smoking in the long, R: Yeah, R: Maybe that's Ignorant somewhat,. That's my percepticn~ R: Well, I know my father is obese and has been for decades and he's gone through 7 heart attacks, R: Obesity means 30 pounds or more aveneight. R: Yeah, he's 5'10 and his average weight is 230, R: Oh, he's fat. R; So he shops at George Richards like me, eh? R: And Omar the tentmaker, R: It depends what kind of fat it isl R: Yeah. R: Because I've seen some fat guys that their belly.doesn!t hang down, it hangs up, rightl They can kick above their head and kick you fn.the face and off you go, right? R: It depends on how you get fat,. R: It depends on how much work your cardiovascular system O is doing. hi Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ~2_ -40- R: Well, r:le of it's caused by glandular problems, Others is just total slobbish, You an be put into s:3oe. R; There's no need for it. That's my viewpoint, R: I figure with overeating you can always go out and exercir~~ You can't just go out and run a block because you'll die, R: liell,:rereating, you've got a chance of getting high bleed Inssure and all that crap right there, right? Rt Then g~u're spending your money again, pt I jus- say each to their cwn, That's what t always say. That's the whole kit and kaboodle, Each to their own, You 6tly go around once and after that, you're gone, R; I tnic~ there would be an amazing difference betye~n smoking · I think probably including alcohol · different from eating is that - well, maybe this is not true, but a lot:i people are not addicted to food in great quantities as they are in addicted to cigarcttes~ I mean, I have cigarettes everyday, but I don't necessarily pig out every day, M: Which is worse for you? R: Uoll, I thinl jult locaura the clpantte Ir a daily · I'm putting those poisons into my system on a regular dairy basis year in and year out, I think that is the difference · except for the people who spend their days having Orec cookies. M: Eating the vranq types of food then. Food that's likely 1Z1 Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ---~-----33~eC~C~ · .41. to elevate your blood pressure, R: low incwne people, M: Eggs or drinking too ~nuch milk or that stuff, R: Bacon and pork is garbage food. R; 'Just too much of one thing, R; Yeah. M: No, I'm thinking of the one's that are high in fat, R; It doesn't really mean garbage food, A piece of pizza is still actually good for you, it's got vegetable topping and yeast and that. It's just in great CuantftY, like he's saying, with the cigarettes, It's just anything, if you're going to overdo it, R; Yeah but somehow I get the feeling if you uere eating great quantities of the 5 food groups, you know, the vegetables and all that, somehow or other yould still probably · I mean your system wouldn't need it · yould probably get rid of it, R; (inaudible) R: But if your diet consists of like for breakfast heavily sugared cereal and a lot of highly processed,,,, M; Okay, well, getting back to these foods that are sort of fitty, like fries, eggs, milk, cheese, and is likely r0 to raise your blood eholesteral level and triglycerides O or uhatever those things are~ HadDes smoking relate as N_ a health risk to eating a lot of those tyPes of foods? G Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ~ R: Well, it's a funny thing because I find that I've wasted a lot of time smoking - that's why I stopped, That's another reason, I salt, hey, it easts too moch and it wastes a lot of time. And i think that way about eating too. I think, if you eat a Ibt, it doesn't matter how much fatty foods you eat, you've still got to eat a lot of ii, if all you eat is fatty foods, 5o, then aclin youlre wdSti~ your time and youlre Hasting your n;oney. It's all the same thing to me. R: I think maybe my age comes into play, bur I don't really · maybe when you get older, maybe when you have health prbbie~ or you're obese, like I don't tty and SE~ a balanced meal and I don't refrain irwn eating cheeses because it's got high cholesteral, Just because i'm young, I can burn anything off, I just don't look at food that war, r nean, my mom puts down:he vfge:c~isi on the table and there's my balanced meal,.you know what I mean? 5o, smoking, for me, was totally different, You mentioned earlier about movies and how these ;hinos yau· can do without. I never related cigarettes to sae4ing that I was paying for, like a movie, It was, when I looked at my pay cheque - you'd look at your weekly paycnelue and take off · like tax · you take off the cigarettes. Ii was like an expense. R: i found that was one of the last things I would give up. like if I had to have a quarter ·· like my last quarter, that went toward cigarettes or a newspaper, I'd buy the cigarettes. Itls'psychological with me, rather than physical, You had to have that smoke when you got up in the morning, And if you hadn't bought a pack or cigarettes the night before, If it wasn't there, you went through the ashtfays for a butt and this kind of stuff, O R: Oh yeah. C Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: Dill -43- M: how about the risk of smoking eigare~ts, as opposed to other forms of tobacco? R; Theylre just other forms of cancer, This guy, Oon, this old farmer boy, he got · he chewed the stuff and he got cancer of the mouth, the lip. Very painful. So it's just another element, Cigarettes, they say, is more prevalent to lung cancer, There's no basis there, you know. If you're going to get it, you're going to get it, That's all there is to it, M: Are cigarettes any more or any lessl R; I think they'd be less, just because · I mean · I never began to chew tobacco just because you're not allowed to · unless youlre sort of out in the field and you can spit wherever you want to, R: You're more prone to different types oi cancer. R: Yeah, R: With pipe tobacco, you get cancer of the lip, R: That's what he got, yeah. R; Thats how i thought too. R; I've heard so many different things about, like, because with cigars and pipes you don't inhale, therefore, instead of garbage getting into your lungs, and causing cancer there, you hold ii at the back of your throat and it's going to be there. The sanle ga~age b R: One of the things that nade Re puit once, one of the Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ~C_ .43. previous times i quit, I had a head cold for about 3 days and like it was totally plugged up, and when it finally loosened and I was able to blow my nose, it was black shit that came out. And there was gebs of it. I'm not kidding. And then, gradually, over the day it timed lesser and lesser, lighter in colour, until it was finally brown. And I thought, that was in my sinuses, all of that? You can imagine what your lungs look like, R:~ I think cigarettes are worse, because lung cancer and heart disease is worse than having your chew cut out. R; Ydu'n going to walk around with your face all sliced upl R: ihan dead? Yeah, R: Your lips already fell off, ehl RI I suppose, of relative evils, I suppose cancer of the lip is not going to · probably is not going to bill you unless it starts taking off In other directions. It would kills your social life, I suppose, but ycu'd still be around, But f mean, when there's a choice to have none of the above, fld go for that one. M: How do you feel about this Grahaml R; About cancer of the Ilpl M: About these relative risks of cigarettes and cigarsl R; I don't knav, Cigarettes are just, they're so mucn O more common for like my age group I think. You know, O to swke a pipe or a cigar would be,,,,. N Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 2__2_ ·45· R: Preszptuous? R; Yeah. And the same with the smokeless tobacco stuff · it's nor really · the reason I started was because that was my social circle and no one was chewing, so · you f~si wouldn't do it. M: is there a different risk involved? R: Actually cigarettes might sea less risky. So ~lny peocig do it. it's just more popular, so· you hear one s:ory about lip cancer or something, and then yau'd hear some about lung cancer. But then you say, if so many people smoke, someone has to get cancer. M: Okay, let's move along. Obviously your attitude towards smoking has changed in recent years because you quit, How e: you think the public, at large, has their attitude towar:s smoking changed at all in recent years? Say, over the list 5 years? R: Yeah, R; Oras:ically yeah. The health thing, you tnov,'the fitness conscious thing, R: Participaetfon, R; That's for sure. R; I find a lot less guys smoking than you do girls now. A lot of girls are starting to smoke It Ia. Ga downtown b to Yonge and Dundas and i think every 14 year old girl O down there Is smoking. Theylve got a cigarette in their P, mouth, Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 R: They're doing mot:! than that. R; And also at movies. that's one thing I've noticed. the old movies where the hero and the heroin - the hero lights up Z cigarettes, gives her the other one, and they blow in each other's face and they're talking and there's no tears Of anything, I don't understand how they do it. R: Sexy. R; Yeah, that was great. that was great back then, R; Nowadays they just go for the sack, right? R: Well, now you rarely see · one thing I've sort of noticed is that · I So to a lot of films · bad guys smoke in movier.a lot more than good guys. But, the good guys don't s:oke nearly as much, and that's a complete reversal from back in the QO's and SO's where the good guy was cook with a cigarette. Bogart, right? 5o, obviously that's going to change people's perception of what's.,ll M: 5o, we've got some health reasons, and we've got some role models from the movies, How else has the public's attitude towards smoking changed? R; They're telling everyone where to smoke it and what to smoke, Actually, I don't think give two turds about the whole thing, but it's a whale political thing about what smoking can do to you. well, who cares? He's not Faking. Light a candle · buy the C, guy a candle, ii he's sitting right beside you. the ~ smoke won't bother him anymore, All this stuff about gndring Inal wd.n·.IXinp mn - it i poia IrL lp school. And, personally, because I don't mind looking for s. Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 -47- a job because I just happen to make money all the time, I wouldn't put up with that kind of stuff, I mean, it sounds ridiculous, 1; can't sloke at my desk because it's drifting over there, Buy the guy a candle and you've got it solved, R: Well, yeah but, certain places its not going to be practical to have a candle burning, R; IJell, they have to get practical to infringe an my rights to smdke~ R; Well, I don't really think that anyone has the right - I mean · your right to smoke steps when 1 hive to inhale your smoke, if I haven't chosen to do so. R; But say you should go out tonight out of this room here, youlre goin3to be inhaling carbon monoxide off the TTC and,,,, R; Yeah I know, R; That's like guys jogging down the road there on the pavement, If you want to run, you run in a field, R; Yeah I know, but we're talking about office buildings that have those floors in which they don't have anything except ,.,,, R; What about Larry Hagman? He never talks on Sunday and he walks around with a little propelled fan, There you go, Wear a gas mask, pt You're human', that's the thing, R; Well, yeah, especially now with this bylaw that they're P, C: I i I; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ~ trying to ge'cl..~, R: That bylaw, that's bullshit. RI I agree too. Rt Infringing upon my rights. Like asking the guy next to me not to chew with his mou".h open because I have to listen to him. R: Well, theylre talking about some oranges and bicycles. I mean. youlre talking about jaethinp different, like you're saying, that would be the same sort of thing if you were to sit there uith poison and you have a right to do that. R: Well, why the hell should you have the right to do that? R: Why should you have tae right to tell him not to? R: Right,. R; Because it's poison. R; He's poisoning himself too, R; It's like saying someone has the right to stick a gun in his head, but the bullet's going to go through his,,,,. (everyone talking) R; I don't understand. I'm just saying nobody has · now they do · they have the rigM to say that you're not allowed to smoke there. If you don't like him smoking there, you move your desk and put somebody else that smokes there. O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ~2~ ·49- R; Yeah but non smokers are in the majority now, R: Yeah i know they are, R; Oonlt you find this absurd that you're arguing on behalf of someone polluting the air and poisoning usl A: Yeah, but you go into restaurants and they have non· joking at those Swiss Chalets and all that, R; And other restaurants. A: What he's doing - if people have to work together riEhtl You have to be beside one another, there has to be someli~ing else, other than everyone saying · well, it comes down to like, the bible was a good book and everybody believed in it, but it's like they're forcing you to read it, or forcing you not to read it. I mean, slaking causes cancer, I don't care, I don't care. Buy a candle or buy an air purifier. R; No, it's far easier for the company to segregate the smokers than it is to provide every single person that doesn't wanttl;e smoke around them with an air purifier, I mean, those arguments; - it's far cheaper for a company,,.,, R; To tell me what to do, A: Yes, it's far cheaper, First of all, it's a proven fact that the number of sick days that employees who are jokers are leaps and bounds above employees who Be non-seekers, R; You have to look at the survey. Because the type of person who's a smoker generally maybe drinks more and O does other things more, I? Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ~ ~ R: Well, perhaps, But, whatever it is, companies are now - it's bec:ming pan of their hiring policies, R: But that's discrinin~tion right tnere~ R; Yeah, R: Exactly, R: Ii you would lire a nan·smoker and then again you just tell them oh, I don't smoke, and if you want the job you Fuit, Beraus~ then youlre a minority going into a plea that's already decided no one can smoke. R: And once yau're in with the union, they'd have a hell of a hard time getting rid of you, R: Yeah, Na, the big proble~ that they're talking about is in offices, Offices in which you've got one air circulation systa. Those big office towers, the air that's in those buildings gets circulated all day. Nothing is fresh, it's just constantly being drummed through the air filters, And these air filters do not do 100"1 job, So, it doesn't really matter whether you've got an air purif ier an your desL. If you have one on your desk all day, maybe you'll not have to deal with somebody else's cigarette smoke, 8ut it: gets to the paint where the entire air mass of the building is being poisoned on a regular basis, A: That sounds like crap to me, A: No, Second hand cigarette smoke, R:~ I lean, the carbon monoxide gets In the door, I Rein, someone walks in with dirt and there's dust, there's O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·51· everything in the air, R; Of course, R; Cigarettes have been around for hundreds of years, M: I want to get back to that issue because it's kind of interesting, and obviously you've got son;e strong opinions about it, IJe've talked about health reasons, welre talking about this and welre going to gE: into this second hand slpoke in a rainuie, where art you getting all your information about these things? R: 60 minutes. R: Pnil Donahue, R: Newspaper, Globe and Mail. R: And living with it too, Now what theylre saying is that they want to have a special smoking room, just lil(e when you're at school, you weren't allowed to smoke inside the school, they want to have this special room. Air is still going to get filtered through, You're still going to have it, R: A friend of mine goes to this doctor and he's get Thank you for not Smoking in his office, and he's this little Polish doctor and he smokes about 3 packs a day. R; Yeah, but he's a hipocrite, R; Yeah, a; He Is a doctor, (inaudible) Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ~ __ R: I think it's a question · i mean · i agree, I don't that anyone should be able to say, no you can't aaoke, But then, on the other hand, basically the problem is now · I met if you're hired and there's " standard policy, there will be no smokers, then you qoti? take this job on the premise that you're nel allowed to s;noka on this jon, then there's never going to be a probie~n. Then you're not going to have a fight. Because you're not giving up your right because, by taking a jab where it says no snaking allowed, you're giving up your right to smoke and then people can't say, sorry, you broke the rule, people have a right to smoke, .co the Ptoble~n really is only with a few people now tha-, can't he segregated. You know, it's a very snail situation, People that can't be segregated. People an strongly smokers, People are strongly against smoking. You can have a real conflict, 1 don't think you can ever solve the~, I an, you can set up a nypatselical situation and you can't salve them there. R: The bylaw Is always going to be less than wonderful in individual circumstances, R; Actually, I was wondering, cigarettes constitute a large arnount of taxation. If everybody quit smoking, what would we do? R: Cigarette cwnpanies do a lot for this country, R: The govermment gets 1 billion in revenue off cigarettes, R: At least. R: As far as the lount of money that's spent by the province on health care, hospitalization and the aunt Q Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 __I~ _ ·53- and the amount of man hours that are lost every year due to illnesses that have been caused by cigarette smoke, R; ~11, they make their money and balance their billing. That's uhy that jerk Miller is gone now. M: Is that true? go people who do smoke - are they a burden on the health system? R: Yeah, R: Yell, some FMple seer to think so, ~here In spe insurance cMnpanies that .,.. R; ihe one thing I sort of learned is that I fust wish you could take a srcklr and just show him what life is like without smoking, You don't really need to smoke, You'd pro~ably enjoy life a hell or a lot ~re · if he's inclined to physical activity, held probably get 1 lot mon out of It, you know, But you can't do that, I don't think you should go - It's people's lives and if they want to snoke, they can do whatever they vent, I: If you' tell somebody long enough that the room's blue and it's green, theylll believe you, 3 people against i, R: I'11 say cigarettes are good for you, R; I think it's fair that insurance companies charge smokers more for health Insurance, A; They do ~ough, that's fair, 9; Yeah but you know what 1 mean? 16nlt know If anyone O in the room is saying, I wish I could smoke, but I just ClibPDF - v~~fastio.soni - ~~ICC~_~ ·50· can't afford It, but i think n;ost people they jus; sort of said. I'm better off without it, And I think If people could know that, they'd stop s;nokinS, R: That's a good question. If it only cost 10(, would anybody in this room smoke a pack a day still? R; No, I wouldn'i, R; Iwouldn'tl Noway, If it us just a dime, i wouldn't buy it. R: I think I'm better off without it. R; I don't knot, it's never been a dime. R: Well, 1 remember Q5C for a·pack, R: But then again, i really don't think that anybody in this day and age, knows ·'chis day and age is unaware of the health,,,. R; No, everyone knows. R: I don't think there's anybody that does not want to quit, R; You know what I: think?. Actually, I think if the politicians spend are money on my water smelling kind of shitty, when I open it up in the middle of the night, and it's not my taps, r mean it smells and ,,,, R; Where do you live? R: Weston, The water is shit around here, right? Don't iv give me tne pvit making or my friend that puit smoking. O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ~3_1_ ·53· Clean the water first, I mem, if you get your act together, I'11 get RIY act together, R: Everybody's getting poisoned just drinking the water now anyways~ R: Ae?lly~ Everything's bad for you, f mean, coffee kills you, R: Yeah, R: Tea is bad for you, M: Where do smokers rights end and non·rmokers rights beSi3? R: When you blow it in his face, R; When he punches you out, R; You go into arestaurant and they don't have the other thing · that's fine - that's the way it should be, They should have a no smoking or something, R: Sure that's cool because now you're spending lour money and deserve the treatment, R: That's right, R: I don't know, I could even have somebody snaking a cigarette, but when it canes to the stokes,,.., R: But you're biased, just like somebody who doesn't smoke, R: Even when I smoked i hated it, O R; it's just beause of the scent of the stokies, O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 _ ~I_C~ -5i· R: Fidel Cas:ro - a big one, A: ihe smoker ads is right in there too because he's paying too and so is the non-smoker, R: ~ Segraticn, like this gentlemen said, R; Yeah, because it's the kind of thing - you have the right to sloke a cigarette, but you don't have the right to include me In your little f;:n, You can make a decision that you can · I can smoke here or i can smoke here beside this nen·abker, Bhy should the nan-smoker have to move? if you want to Indulge in your habit, then it's up to you t: move. I don't think it's fair at all to.,., R; Youlre locking at it the wrong way because maybe it's up to you to move, A: You might be in the smoking section, R; It doesn't matter what section youlre in, R: Why are you putting the presence an the smokers? R: Because it's the smoker's choice, R; No, it's your problem, It's not my problem, R; The smoker ~8s created the problem far se. I haven't done anything. Al Okay, that's right, you haven't, a: Ilm just standing there and you've come along and parked your desk beside mine and then lit up. [u Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·57- R: What have you done about it? A; I should~lt have to do anything about it. R: Sd Hhy should I? It's not my problem, R; You crel'ed the probla. R: I don't have one, You do, R; Hy probls is the problem that you've created, R: That's right, So it's your prcblwn to get rid of it, R: What if 3ere was 8 people and seven of then snwkt~l What are they going to dol Fire, you knew, it's Ifke the cocca In sports. Tne general manager,,., R: What you would do Is light a candle, R; You and pur candles, (everyone talking at once) A: Okay, what's the question? R: infringement on rights, R: Have you ever walked into a place and had a sign up "no smoking section" and some jerk lit up in the no s;ooking section, he should be booted~out. R: Sure, simple logic, yeah. P R; And if youlre smoking in the smoking section? Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·58· M: Well, in'rens of degree, we seem to have difference of opinion about who's got the problem, for one, But I think we seem to be agreeing on the fact that we should be sharing the space. Is tha: re3sonablel There should be something for smokers and seme~ning for non·sxekcrs. R: If both can agree an it, yeah. R; It shouldn't be law. I mean, ii two people can't work something out, then one of the should be fired. It doesn't matter who you are and what you'n talking about, an agreement can always be mate. R; Not necessarily though, R: That's because you want me to move, R: look, you've got 2 people sit;ing side by side, i:'s not their choice, theylre employees, they get told. Youlre sitting here and you're sitting here. One is a srker, one is a ndn·smoker, Let's say he's chronically allergic to cigarette:snoke, or any kind of smoke perhaps. But in his immediate environment,yoll are the biggest prct~lem. (everyone talking at once) R: Why should the other guy, if it's his? R; I knou, because It's my health being affected. You should ask the boss for one of you two to be moved, R; Maybe he has to sake because he's got bad :·nerves. SaPne people smoke for that. R: He just said it's up to tne two people to work it out. ;; R: That's right. Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 __ -59- R: But not everyone has got asthma and stuff like that, So you put a special problem on, and if i was sitting beside you, R; Tnen you have a choice not to work there too, R: that's right, R; The same choice that he has. R: That's right. R; Or hne an office made in the washroca, RI I think it's up to the smoker to buy a smokeless ashtry and blow all the smoke into it. R; Yeah, nels going to sit over top of an ahtry going (blows) R: Or a gas mask. R; You Set to the point where you two should work it out and if you can't work it out, you ask the bass for one of you to move. R: Why should the non·Smoker pay for a device? R; Why should a smoker? R: Because he's the one who's created the problem, R: But you created the problem, I didn't.. M: Weln going to run out of time if we eontinw this. We've been talking about second hand smoke a lot, O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·60· Uelre talking about second hand smoke. Passive smoking, it's been called as well, Are you familiar with Ihat? R: IY'hnun, M:: Is inhaling somebody else's smoke dangerous to a non- smoker? R; No, it's not. I just redd the drtiele the Mher day in the ..,.. R: Oh yes. R: Oid you read that? R: On, there's lats of articles. R: I did a test for the heart thing last year, and I was smoking and the guy right next to me (inaudible), Well, I blew into it, but I had better lungs than this guy who was a non-smoker, R: Well, they just said that it didn't, You know, it's progaganda.anyway, what you read. R: Yeah, but it sakes sense. Given the fact that smoking is bad for your health, and even if the guy who's smoking and he exhales only 10X of what he took in, it's still going to be bad. R: I don't believe.that. They say like sniezing, when a person sneezes thatyou're going catch the cold. You have more chance of catching a cold from the person touching stuff, like your table, your towel O or sd~ething~ iv Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 -61·· R: Welre not talking about germs here, R: They're all the same site. R: Welre not going to get into talking about acid.,., R: Not at ail, But I'm saying Chat the stuff, when you smoke in, a good deal of the poison is staying in you, but a lot of it is coming right back out. Now, Where did they go? If somebody else breathes them in, they've got it in them. I mean, it's just logic. I me?n, people who work in smoky bars, they don'; have to be smokers to have a smoker's cough. R: I spent all the time, when I went down to Florida, with his smoke in the car and he really wanted me to break down to have a cigarette. But then I kind of resisted it. I don't know if it's as bad, R: Did you open the windowl R: Yeah I did. R: The problem goes out the window then. R: Did you have air conditioning? R; yeah we did. He becare like a chain smoker because of it, He was trying pretty hard, M: Is it really injurious to you? R: I don't think so. Not if I choose to go to a bar or something, Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ~~ _ -62· R: I don't think so either, R: It de~ends, i: you're walking around (inaudible) and some guy's 5 feet away smoking a cigarette, it's not going to kill you at all. But if he's blowing in ycut mouth, ,,,. R; If you're pur~pe~ in smoke. R; If yeu're in a closed environment, like in a taxi~..~ R: Well, this room, If we were in this roam and half of us ware smokinc, R; Yeah. M: Where did you SO.t this information about that second hand s;nokel R: Propaganda on the radio, R; It's in the papers, the media, 60 minutes. R: f'd say it's c~~oon logic, R; Yeah right. R: I iust it's cc~an logics if smoking hurts you, breathing someone else's smoke is going to hurt you. M: Well, as you guys are all refolaed smokers, has your attitude In this area changed at all since you've given up? R; Yeah. R; I've really gone to alcohol now. Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 1: I still think that If I'm sitting beside a guy who's smoking, I'm not going to turn around and tell him to Cult smoking, because I don't like it, R: It's that bloody puritanc~ again. R: that's it. Like I've met people when I smoked, like I walked into a restaurant or something and Ild be sitting there having my cigarette and it's a smoking section and everything and this guy he turned around and told me to puit smoking, And you just turn around and tell him to (gesture), Like he can't say anything about it. He starts saying all this stuff to me, like what am I supposed to do here? i just keep on smoking, R: My brother was like that. He was smoking at the table when he us eating. R; It's an area designated. If the guy wanted a smoke free environment, he should goto the non·smoking. R: I live in Scarborough and almost everything out there is - they don't even have a non·smoking section. You might find one right in the back comer or a restaurant. Youlre sitting there and there's no such thing as a non·smoking area, there's people sitting in there and tneylre not smoking and tneylll ask you to quit smoking. You have to be a moron though to go to a bar and expect it to be smoke frees pt I have purified myself now and I's about to purify you. M: r~ere are several organizations, groups, who have an opinion on smoking, Are you aware of any of these types of groups? a Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 __ ___ ·6:· I: Oh yeah. R: The one with that telephone pole dr whatever, M: Pro or con sloking, R: just like the people that are always saying don't kill baby seals, right? R: Yeah, well there's lats of lobby Oroc3s~ R: I don't know how they find the tile rlough, It lust be nice to larch downtown there · p~·lbo~fon, Or, M and all these good guys. R: I love that. R: Mutualist disarnanent. That's ridieulcus. Uhere do they get the time? R: There's other people on the other side of the coin, on both sides or all these Issues, spending a lot of It's just like any kind or cause you get into. like a political party or spmct~ing~ Everybody has their hobby, S#a people have a hobby against banning sloking. M: i guess I'D trying to find out which of those groups that you'n aware of · okay let's talk about banning sloking. Yich groups are you aware of that In saying we should ban sloking or we should restrict It ran way? I: b~mCrr. I: Canadian Cancer Society. O ClibPDF - v~~fastio.soni ·_ · ·65· R: Some (inaudlble) in California started this whole thing, R: G A S S, R; You know, those people want to tell you what to do, R: The Heart Association. R: it's an infliction on your rights, R: That's tight. M: Are any of them more cnEiVe than others? R: Canadian Cancer Society, R: Cancer Society · Canada and America, What they say, most of the time, almost goes, R: Canadian Lung Society, R: Some of them are incredible like Jewish Mothers Against Smoking, R: Yeah, R: A me~ership of maybe 12 or 6 pregnant Jewish mothers running around, R: let her blow some air, Shelf got something to do. That's what it comes down to, People having something to do~ the onlyreason he's complaining and complaining about everything and there's people helping him complain is because they've got nothing better to do, R: Chronic complainers, yeah, O Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 M: Oo any of these groups have anything intelligent to say? R: Well, t$:ls an association. It's not just a btloch of people who think they know what they're talking about, M: Okay, let's talk about the associations then, R: They know what they're talking about. R: The Ontario Medical Association, R: Theydon't say cancer is causer Ly smoking, If you smoke, youlre more able to catch diseases of any sort, Ii doesn'i matter if ii's cancer or anything, i catch a cold fast because I've beaten down my in;lunities with a p~, Ydu're liable to have liver problems because you drink too much, But it doesn't mean that you had alcoholic liver ptalle~s. It just means that sa~thin~'s wrong. You've broken down your system, R: Metabolism, yeah, Same as the Vitamin C content, That's always been an interesting thing that I saw, M: We haven't got time, I'm sorry, R: No, but with smoking though, R; Eat an orange after every cigarette. R: The Ontario Medical Association, that's what they said. R: They just Drought some pamphlets out by those associations showing you pictures of lungs ,,,, R: (inaudi~le) i Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 ·67· M: What about what you might've run into at school? Are there programs at school to talk about smoking? R: If you're taught smoking at school, usually you get kicked out, Uhen I went to school, during the winter, nobody would go out to smoke, so they went to the washroom, the place was just packed, The smoke was all over the place and the teachers would come in and they'd pick out kids II.1 M: But did they have programs in the school,,,, R: Not when i was there. R: there is for people who are interested in what they've got to say, R: Well, they show you the (inaudible) of smoke in grade 8 or g ihey have that program or something, R: In~nellth Class, R: Yeah, R: Thy bring in the associations to talk, R: Yeah, R: But if yw refuse to listen, tnen you never learn anyway, It doesn't matter if you're talking about smoking of not, H: I guess I'm trying to get a feel for which of these groups are more crediblel Cr R: I'm not affected by anyone's opinion, except when it starts affecting me directly, And then I most present Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 __ ·68· an opinion because everyone else did one too. R: That's highly rational. R: Like, a good example is. it doesn't matter if you'rz talking about smoking or pregnant people getting abortions and stuff like that. The Jewish and Egyptians didn't have anything to say about abor,i?n right? But, once the Catholics said - lI00 went down there and said, no more baB killing. Tbe Jews,:~2y stepped up, where's the separation of church and state? That's all they had to say because the other guys were out of line, R; And they're so two faced too. that Catholic nonsense stuff. M: Ue're running out of time here. How about the other side? Should we hear anything from the tobacco industries? R: They don't want to say a word about,,,. R: That's an interesting thing you brought up. Steve Podborski, the ski thing. Here they're good enough to put him through for all that and then he says - he turns his back and says it's defamation of character, blah. blah, He doesn't want to do it. R; Just like with Molsons. Re~nember? R: Yeah. R; You going to tell me he doesn't drink beer? R: They Rad that on 60 Minutes a couple of weeks ago, about fl the beer thing, where they wanted to wipaut the beer ads, Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111 -~------~3C--__ ·69- The same as which they did for the cigare:tes, Remember the commercial leers ago? Soortsman. Macho cigarette hunter and all that, fhere's always going to be some lobbyist proup. Should up hear from the industry? P: It's gorenant controlled anyway. R; Well, it's hard to tell, because the industry has the power of advertising, right? Somewhat,, i mean, they could say anything in the ads as long as it's true, but yet they can't say anything because it's not true. R: It all depends on how you say it, R: Well, you can bet that If a (inaudible) caused lung cancer, they would Sly that PuIck enough, But they don't. R: Yes they do, They said avoid Inhaling. R: Yeah, they've got it right on the carton. R: Yeah, but I'm saying they can't say that It doesn't cause lung cancer because it does. R: No It dasn't, It just makes you more Influmeial to It. I; They say it cap be a PfOF factor in the cause Of lung cancer, It doesn't necessarily cause lung cancer, I: There's no directly Proven link, ClibPDF - v~~fastio.soni __ ·70· R: There was that one guy that's 110 years old that has smoked since he was 20. R: That's one isolated ease, R: Yeah, I'm just saying his ape that's all~ 9: The tobacco industry and what they were pmotfnf was hY;any jabs ~~2 orssted, They do present their opinion, R: They're constantly lobbing at the provincial Icvcl~ Rif~: at the moment, this whole bylaw thing in Tcr;nto is net really going to have any teeth at all unless the F~vinabacks up and backs them up on it. And they're going to have a really hard time because the tobacco growers lobby are really in deep with the provincial puys~ R; if t:q're subridirsd, then they aren't and they shouldn't be. s: Ya!!, it's not only suhsidfld, but I ran lik~ nh~ o you do about all these tobacco larmers in Sirncoe? P: Same as the others that are going Itl M: I'm sorry, wt've run out of tinel l'il be ripht ~ack. P: You said okay, louln a smoker and I'm I non-smoker, right? So, I want you · I don't want to inhale lour PtL ~114 pmbls, I shoad do p~l~ Ibo~ it? If you ~tcai from me, 1 comollIn, You siy, look, I don't have a probl9, why should 1 be thrown in jail? That's the sane thing, ClibPDF - v~~fastio.soni ·71· R: Na, you se, you force the issue and say I should move, right? He hasn't thought about it long enough to figure out there's a better way out. R: If we're sitting beside one another, maybe I'm sitting here, right? How can you stop the smoke from getting to youl R: Here's a better one, Say you haven't changed your socks for tro months and they really stink. Should I Mve'ar should you change your seeks? M: Okay guys, thank you very much. WO Clit; PDF -!::!!::!!::!.f3 StlC.i: 0111